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View Full Version : A Joker movie is coming (produced by Martin Scorsese and directed by Todd Philips



Alex K.
08-23-2017, 12:14 AM
http://deadline.com/2017/08/the-joker-origin-movie-todd-phillips-martin-scorsese-scott-silver-batman-dc-universe-1202154053/

This I didn't see coming. Of course, you could argue that the 89 Batman was essentially the Joker movie. Still, a Joker movie tackling Killing Joke (since it's going to be an origin movie) might be good. So long as Philips and Scorsese can keep the meddling CEO's out of this then it has a chance of being good.

Oh, and no Jared Leto please. Put someone like Crispin Glover in there as the Joker. I don't care if the man is in his 50's he can still pass as someone in their 30's and he could really take that character to places never seen before.

Derrick King
08-23-2017, 01:11 AM
Don't have to worry about Leto:

most recently played by Jared Leto in the first Suicide Squad film. He will reprise in the Suicide Squad sequel and the Harley Quinn spinoff, but this new film will launch the character with a different actor, possibly younger.

Dom D
08-23-2017, 07:17 AM
I thought they announced this all the way back when they were hyping Leto's performance in Suicide Squad. And boy did they hype that. Rarely has so much been promised and so little delivered.

I'm sure this will be terrible and I'm equally sure I'll see it. I have a strange fascination with the DC movies. I just don't get how Warners are getting their arses handed to them so comprehensively by Marvel. They've got Batman and Superman and the Joker and Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman. Marvel's highest profile characters, the ones they actually had the rights to back in the beginning, were Hulk (who's a very tough character to make a film about) and Iron Man. I'm not sure many people knew who Iron Man was. And yet they've destroyed DC.

I think, and I may be overthinking it, the reason is that Marvel has approached this as if they're are making films (although it has devolved into soap opera) while DC approached the films as comic books. I don't think comic books and films work the same at all. The suspension of disbelief is set at a different bar. I remember saying before Batman Vs Superman that you can't put those two characters together and was shouted down that it had been done successfully in the comics. After watching the film I'm doubly convinced it can't be done. Tonally everything should be different in a Batman movie and a superman. But you don't have as many cues that feel wrong in a comic book when they're together. There is, for instance, no soundtrack to a comic book. The reader just provides so much more of the experience with their imagination than is possible in a film where it is all handed to you. You can't just gloss over the incongruities when you're watching something as opposed to when you are reading it.

And, yeah, to get this thing back on topic, I don't think a Joker movie can be done. Maybe it works as a comic book. On film a character like that has to be used a shock trooper. It's like in a sitcom where the funniest character is usually the one with the least screen time. Those type of characters don't bear examination so they have to get on, have a big impact and get off fast. The Joker can make a film when he turns up for 5 minutes of run time but give him a whole film to carry and he'll either disappear or become obnoxious.

Gary Banks
08-23-2017, 08:37 AM
Right now this is all in the jerking off stage. When they start filming this (and several others like The Batman, Gotham City Sirens etc) then I'll pay more attention.

Alex K.
08-23-2017, 04:47 PM
I think, and I may be overthinking it, the reason is that Marvel has approached this as if they're are making films (although it has devolved into soap opera) while DC approached the films as comic books. I don't think comic books and films work the same at all. The suspension of disbelief is set at a different bar. I remember saying before Batman Vs Superman that you can't put those two characters together and was shouted down that it had been done successfully in the comics. After watching the film I'm doubly convinced it can't be done. Tonally everything should be different in a Batman movie and a superman. But you don't have as many cues that feel wrong in a comic book when they're together. There is, for instance, no soundtrack to a comic book. The reader just provides so much more of the experience with their imagination than is possible in a film where it is all handed to you. You can't just gloss over the incongruities when you're watching something as opposed to when you are reading it.



I liked Batman V Superman. And I don't often enjoy superhero flicks. The exceptions have been: Guardians, Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Logan, Days of Future Past, and Deadpool. Oh, and Dredd 3D.

Darcy Parker
08-24-2017, 10:15 PM
The reason DC movies are always train wrecks and Marvel’s movies do well is that Warner Brothers doesn’t respect the comics at all. They see the movies as lending the characters legitimacy, that comics are a lesser and embarrassing place to come from. That’s why they made things like Suicide Squad and Catwoman that totally fuck up the characters and their worlds.

Marvel sees the history from the comics as lending the movies legitimacy, and they stay truer to the characters and their origins that people have come to know and love over the years.

Until and unless the assholes at the top of WB stop looking down their noses at the comics they are making adaptations of, the DC movies are going to be crap.

Alex K.
09-21-2018, 05:32 PM
And Joaquin Phoenix is our Joker:

https://twitter.com/wbpictures/status/1043184618160021505

Good choice.

Alex K.
04-03-2019, 11:55 AM
https://twitter.com/jokermovie/status/1113425942574034945

Looks good.

agent999
04-03-2019, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure why, but that trailer made me think of Maniac 2: Mr. Robbie.

Matt H.
04-03-2019, 06:50 PM
What's it rated? It looks like an R, but you never know...

Darcy Parker
04-04-2019, 12:02 AM
The trailer really has a Scorsese vibe to it. I’m intrigued and actually considering seeing it in the theatre, which I genuinely haven’t said about a DC movie since Man of Steel, which I unfortunately didn’t get to see that way.

Toyboy
04-04-2019, 02:02 PM
I wish screenwriters would try to find a synonym for "freak". That pejorative seems to pop up in every superhero/comic book movie but that's true of the comics themselves as well.

I'll rent this one. Not sure why we need this story told (again...isn't the Gotham TV show covering the Joker origin right now?) but I've become a big fan of Phoenix ever since THE MASTER so he's the draw for me.

That marquee title for (the fake movie?) STRIP SEARCH seems to have been modeled after the FLESHPOT ON 42nd STREET poster. Too bad they didn't use WATER POWER like in the Batman: Year One comic.

Takuma
04-06-2019, 09:34 AM
This looks really interesting. Could be the first DC movie I see in cinema since Dark Knight Rises.

(as for Marvel, the last one I saw in cinema was Blade 2)

Toyboy
07-26-2019, 05:19 PM
This is going to get limited 70mm screenings.

agent999
10-04-2019, 12:47 PM
Enjoyed this, Phoenix was fucking great. Very heavily influenced by King of Comedy, Taxi Driver and Fight Club and has a few easter eggs referring directly to them (even to Batman '66). Not quite the masterpiece some are claiming, I felt the DC stuff was a little heavy handed: it could have been a better film if it had nothing to do with Batman and was just an original character study. However, getting the wider public into seeing something this dark by wrapping it up in comic book clothes is pretty subversive.

ChicGandil
10-05-2019, 04:38 PM
Enjoyed this, Phoenix was fucking great. Very heavily influenced by King of Comedy, Taxi Driver and Fight Club and has a few easter eggs referring directly to them (even to Batman '66). Not quite the masterpiece some are claiming, I felt the DC stuff was a little heavy handed: it could have been a better film if it had nothing to do with Batman and was just an original character study. However, getting the wider public into seeing something this dark by wrapping it up in comic book clothes is pretty subversive.

Pretty much agree with everything here only I kind of feel like it is a masterpiece. It always feels ridiculous to untether that word, but fuck - this was an actual thing.


I always felt like Scorsese did The King Of Comedy for those who misunderstood Taxi Driver. This movie plays like those two films directly crossed then filtered through the Joker iconography under the influence of the four Purge movies.

Moe than a little surprised by how dark and subversive this ended up being.


For me, this is ****/**** and among the best comic book movies ever made.

Alex K.
10-05-2019, 09:15 PM
Fucking amazing. So fucking amazing. I loved the fuck out of this. It is an actual masterpiece.

Tom Clark
10-08-2019, 08:01 PM
Media Horrified By Lack Of Violence At Joker Screenings (https://babylonbee.com/news/media-horrified-by-lack-of-violence-at-joker-screenings?fbclid=IwAR3WnF4DoX2f0lsGEL3l1CMtPKNY5h 7oDa5ZhnFnJdelNqqoGhZ11O65I3U)


“We found one incident of a guy cheering too loudly at the fictional violence,” said CNN reporter Terrance Shelton, “but that was it. There was nothing. Absolutely nothing we can glom onto and spin into a hot take that reinforces The Narrative. I’m shaken to my core.”

:haha:

Randy G
10-12-2019, 11:10 PM
For me Phoenix is the only real draw, Joker as Bickle would have been an interesting idea as a comic in the 80s, these days, not so much.

Nottage
10-16-2019, 06:36 AM
I was very hyped up for a Joker-centric movie and I wasn't disappointed. It wasn't perfect, but that's subjective anyway.

JoeS
10-16-2019, 09:04 PM
When Martin Scorsese's name got linked as a producer on this DC Comics spin-off movie, many people were flabbergasted. Scorsese? A Superhero flick?* In retrospect, once one sees the end result it makes a certain amount of sense. Much of JOKER plays like an alternate universe conglomeration of TAXI DRIVER and KING OF COMEDY (with healthy doses of MEAN STREETS and AFTER HOURS in the stew). Director and Co-Writer Todd Phillips and his partner Scott Silver cleverly weave in the origin story of the super-villain into this alternate reality.

Joaquin Phoenix plays Arthur Fleck, a sad sack with psychological issues. So, of course, he's working as a for hire clown who spreads his anti-joy to those unfortunate to witness his services. Fleck lives with his ailing mother Penny (Frances Conroy). Fleck has dreams of becoming a stand up comedian, and , after a particularly awkward trial set, he ends up as a guest on a late night talk show hosted by none other than -- Rupert Pupkin himself, Robert DeNiro (as Murray Franklin). Also lurking around Fleck's purvueis a certain rich millionaire Thomas Wayne (Brett Cullen) and his son, uh, Bruce (Dante Pereira-Olson).

At this point it must be stressed that JOKER's screenplay and direction use the form of the (highly) unreliable narrator in telling its tale. Sometimes, the deception is clear. At other times, not so much, to the point where one can't be certain. For the most part, it's a smart strategy. The movie succeeds in keeping the viewer off-balance even if one is fairly certain where its ultimately headed.

Phoenix has long been one of cinema's most quirky and unusual leading men. As if to prove his bona fides as an eccentric, he even once pulled a year long stunt where he 'quit' acting to become a full-time rapper. Here his unpredictability is keenly used to the movie's advantage. Phoenix contorts and bends his body, and curls his facial muscles almost as if it were against his will. It's a physical transformation so complete, that the Joker clown makeup is almost superfluous.

JOKER exerts it grungy attitude in an effective manner for the first two acts. It's a dark bleak vision where the DC origins are almost unnecessary. The streets are crime ridden and literally filled with piles of garbage. Other than the references to Gotham City and the Wayne family, it genuinely feels apart from the superhero machine. Unfortunately, Phillips and Silver have to not only shoe-horn in the comic book elements, but, in doing so they also become too confidant of their ability to give the movie false gravitas. Not content with paying homage to the Scorsese quartet, JOKER also weaves in DEATH WISH, and ultimately NETWORK (and not to the present movie's advantage). It feels force and Fleck/Joker's words begin to feel false and over-written (V FOR VENDETTA achieved similar conclusions much more smoothly and organically). The too on the nose song score also gets to be a bit much.

Despite the weak third act, JOKER is still a movie to be reckoned with. Missteps aside, it a jarring addition to mainstream blockbuster movie-making. Even if one isn't as seeped in the films of the 70s and early 80s** it's a daunting vision even it can't fully pull it off.



* In the end, it didn't happen, of course. The current 'official story' is that Scorsese was approached because the movie was to be set in NYC and it was thought his connections and production savvy could smooth the way for an easier shoot. He demurred in the end.

** Along with the titles mentioned, JOKER evokes such 70s crime films as THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1,2,3 and THE FRENCH CONNECTION. That's why it's a bit of surprise when it's revealed that it actually seems to take place in 1981 (references to the films WOLFEN and ZORRO THE GAY BLADE set the date).

Ian Jane
01-13-2020, 10:40 AM
Watched this last night and enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to. I figured I'd like it, Phoenix is a good actor and the trailer made it look pretty solid, but it was better than I figured. I almost feel it would have worked better without the Bruce Wayne connection, that felt like fan service to me but everything else clicked for me. Great art direction, beautiful visuals and really strong acting across the board. I liked the score a lot too. Maybe a bit too much dancing but otherwise, top notch. I'm curious how this will hold up to repeat viewings though.

The WB 4k release is reference quality. Picture and audio quality was absolutely perfect.

This just got 11 Oscar nominations.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/2020-oscar-nominations-list-academy-awards-nominees-1203461985/

Matt H.
01-30-2020, 01:54 PM
Maybe a bit too much dancing

Haha, way too much dancing; it actually started to annoy me towards the end.

Incredibly overrated film. I found it obnoxious, repetitive and overlong. It only seems raw and real when compared to all of the other superhero movies - I didn't buy it and the "grittiness" came off as phony, as did the simplistic psychology. Phoenix did well with the laughing, but I found his performance was too showy and I really didn't care what happened to him. The Wayne stuff was ridiculous and it almost seemed like the studio forced Phillips to include it.

Alex K.
01-30-2020, 01:58 PM
Watched this last night and enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to. I figured I'd like it, Phoenix is a good actor and the trailer made it look pretty solid, but it was better than I figured. I almost feel it would have worked better without the Bruce Wayne connection, that felt like fan service to me but everything else clicked for me. Great art direction, beautiful visuals and really strong acting across the board. I liked the score a lot too. Maybe a bit too much dancing but otherwise, top notch. I'm curious how this will hold up to repeat viewings though.

The WB 4k release is reference quality. Picture and audio quality was absolutely perfect.

This just got 11 Oscar nominations.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/2020-oscar-nominations-list-academy-awards-nominees-1203461985/

https://i.imgur.com/EZBFjiu.gif

Phoenix really deserves an Oscar,

Toyboy
02-10-2020, 08:48 PM
--------SPOILERS----------




It's been over a week since I saw this and I still think about it a couple times a day. Maybe that's a sign that I enjoyed it but I don't know...a lot of my thoughts are about plot holes, which there are plenty of (why would a late night talk show be broadcast live, how could he have ever held down any sort of job for more than a day, how could he have afforded a VCR in 1980, why did Thomas Wayne take his family to see a movie when he knew there were major protests in that part of town, etc), but I ultimately don't care about any of that. Phoenix is strong enough in this to overcome all that stuff...but...

...the filmmakers decided (or the studio insisted) on tying this directly into the Batman/Bruce Wayne origin so they're clearly stating that this is THE Joker. Batman's arch nemesis. That's fine but I cannot see this person as a master criminal, which is by and large the way the character has been portrayed in all media since he debuted. This Joker is too much of a mess to ever accomplish more than what we see, or what is implied in the film. He's not going to form a gang. He doesn't necessarily want to cause chaos even though we see him relishing in the aftermath of it. He's no mastermind. He's just sick, which is perfectly fine but if the implication is that he will someday go toe to toe with Batman or at the very least continue to torment the citizens of Gotham I can't see much happening other than him being beat to a pulp. But I get that we're not supposed to really think too much about that.

I don't remember who this was but back in the AV Maniacs days someone was talking about how the Freddy Krueger in the 2010 remake wasn't as effective as in the original films because they chose to give him very realistic burn makeup. This person felt that the fantasy level was lowered and it took him out of the movie, partly because he himself had a friend who had severe burn scars and it hit too close to home. Having the Joker discussing medication dosages and learning that he'd been abused as a child and had suffered a head injury applies maybe a bit too much verisimilitude, more than is needed anyway. It reminded me also of Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN remake - another example of offering a real world explanation for a pop culture icon who is arguably better left as an enigma.

Dark Horse 77
02-11-2020, 08:25 AM
According to the title of this thread Scorsese produced it but I see nothing for him credit wise in the finished film. When did he drop out?

agent999
02-11-2020, 09:26 AM
According to the title of this thread Scorsese produced it but I see nothing for him credit wise in the finished film. When did he drop out?

Probably when he realised that he'd made this movie twice already. He passed the duties onto Emma Tillinger Koskoff, one of his Irishman producers.

JoeS
02-11-2020, 09:32 AM
According to the title of this thread Scorsese produced it but I see nothing for him credit wise in the finished film. When did he drop out?

As I posted 5 posts prior: " In the end, it didn't happen, of course. The current 'official story' is that Scorsese was approached because the movie was to be set in NYC and it was thought his connections and production savvy could smooth the way for an easier shoot. He demurred in the end."

Dom D
02-11-2020, 11:11 PM
I wanted to dislike this one. A corporate remake of 70s and 80s classics by the guy who did the Hangover. Does anything sound more soulless than that? Plus Phoenix annoys me. And I didn't particularly like Taxi Driver or King Of Comedy much the first time around.

Admittedly it is a bit of a mess. The Batman tie in is ugly. It just draws attention in a way you dont want it to. It's like when someone's got a good script but they need Apple money to make it so characters keep ostentatiously pulling out their iPhones and MacBooks. The thinking is very much the same I guess.

All that said, it's got some pretty good cinematic moments. It often verges on being affecting. Mostly though I love the recreation of early 80s New York. Wonderfully scummy. The film it reminded me of most actually was Ms 45. It's not as good as that film but it hits a bunch of the same notes.

Alex K.
02-11-2020, 11:14 PM
--------SPOILERS----------




It's been over a week since I saw this and I still think about it a couple times a day. Maybe that's a sign that I enjoyed it but I don't know...a lot of my thoughts are about plot holes, which there are plenty of (why would a late night talk show be broadcast live, how could he have ever held down any sort of job for more than a day, how could he have afforded a VCR in 1980, why did Thomas Wayne take his family to see a movie when he knew there were major protests in that part of town, etc), but I ultimately don't care about any of that. Phoenix is strong enough in this to overcome all that stuff...but...

...the filmmakers decided (or the studio insisted) on tying this directly into the Batman/Bruce Wayne origin so they're clearly stating that this is THE Joker. Batman's arch nemesis. That's fine but I cannot see this person as a master criminal, which is by and large the way the character has been portrayed in all media since he debuted. This Joker is too much of a mess to ever accomplish more than what we see, or what is implied in the film. He's not going to form a gang. He doesn't necessarily want to cause chaos even though we see him relishing in the aftermath of it. He's no mastermind. He's just sick, which is perfectly fine but if the implication is that he will someday go toe to toe with Batman or at the very least continue to torment the citizens of Gotham I can't see much happening other than him being beat to a pulp. But I get that we're not supposed to really think too much about that.

I don't remember who this was but back in the AV Maniacs days someone was talking about how the Freddy Krueger in the 2010 remake wasn't as effective as in the original films because they chose to give him very realistic burn makeup. This person felt that the fantasy level was lowered and it took him out of the movie, partly because he himself had a friend who had severe burn scars and it hit too close to home. Having the Joker discussing medication dosages and learning that he'd been abused as a child and had suffered a head injury applies maybe a bit too much verisimilitude, more than is needed anyway. It reminded me also of Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN remake - another example of offering a real world explanation for a pop culture icon who is arguably better left as an enigma.

I wanted to wait until I got back from work to respond in a more thoughtful way.

I didn't see much in the way of plot holes, then again I'm an Italian Horror/Surrealist Horror nut so yeah, I'll let the movie lead me to places without questioning it. SNL was played live up until the Sinead O'Conner incident I think, either that or it was Martin Lawrence going on as a host and a doing a bit deemed "profane." A job as a clown isn't exactly stable. I doubt they do background checks. Thomas probably took the family to a theater before the protest happened, didn't realize what was going on until the riot was well under way. Could have been a PR thing as well.

I don't mind the ties with Bruce and his parents. I thought this was fine. I mean, in most media the Joker kind of knows his identity or at least has the option to know it's Bruce who's Batman but doesn't care to know this. I say that because the whole thing is just one of Joker's possible origins. The ending greatly hints at this. Insert Killing Joke line here.

This is young Joker. This is Joker figuring out who he is. This is his Year One. Think of it like that. He's charismatic enough to push the protests into over drive by the end and that's the Joker. Plus audience's love Phoenix's performance which plays into that. No one gave a shit about Jared Leto's juggalo Joker.

To be fair, a guy's wife and unborn child dying in a freak accident and being literally scarred for life sending him in the depths of madness can hit close to home too. Just saying.

Toyboy
02-12-2020, 10:25 AM
Here's a key piece of my comment: "...but I ultimately don't care about any of that." Also, I made those comments parenthetical for a reason. Just saying.

However...


SNL was played live up until the Sinead O'Conner incident I think, either that or it was Martin Lawrence going on as a host and a doing a bit deemed "profane."

I'm talking specifically about nightly talk shows, like The Tonight Show or Letterman. They've almost always been pretaped mainly because it would be extremely difficult to get guests to come on after 10:30 pm.


A job as a clown isn't exactly stable. I doubt they do background checks.

When we see him get called into the manager's office I believe they made it clear he hadn't been doing that particular job for long. Presumably he's in his late 30's/early 40's and with that level of severe mental issues I would almost assume he'd be on some sort of disability, as would his mother. None of that is a problem but if they're attempting to place this in the "real world" then that's something to consider.


Thomas probably took the family to a theater before the protest happened, didn't realize what was going on until the riot was well under way. Could have been a PR thing as well.

If I remember correctly it's reported that the protests are an organized, scheduled event, and as they're aimed specifically at Wayne and his comments then he'd be more careful I'm guessing. Especially when a lunatic has already tried to get into his home and tracked him down to another event and confronted him in the bathroom. Maybe it's a PR thing but he sure doubled down on his comments about poor people being clowns. Either way, his advisory team is lousy.

Here's the thing though - I don't know if we're to believe any of that stuff is real. He's clearly delusional and we see that many of the things he'd witnessed or done were only in his head. It's possible the entire film took place in his head as he sat there with the therapist. Who's to say.

In terms of this essentially being a JOKER: YEAR ONE and it being about his entry into the life of a master criminal, could be. I doubt we'll see that play out in subsequent Batman films or the unlikely chance that they'll do a direct sequel to this (although with a billion dollars in earnings I can't imagine Warner Brothers not trying to tempt this team to come back. Phillips is definitely not opposed to running shit into the ground.) We shall see.

Dom D
02-12-2020, 02:34 PM
'SNL was played live up until the Sinead O'Conner incident I think, either that or it was Martin Lawrence going on as a host and a doing a bit deemed "profane."'

I'm right in thinking 'live' is never live though right? There's always a delay in case someone decides to call Letterman a cunt which I'm sure happened a whole bunch. Theyd have definitely cut away when someone gets shot in the head I'd think. But like Toyboy says I'm not sure that matters at all. When I'm watching a Batman related movie that's the least of my 'suspension of disbelief' issues.