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Mark Tolch
04-20-2012, 11:33 PM
I never shill for stuff like this, but Mike Scondotto's NY hardcore band INHUMAN is a really friggin' great group. Some of you will remember Mike from AVManiacs...his bandmates Joseph James and STeve Gallo are present and former members of Agnostic Front. Anyway, they're trying to put out some vinyl, which is costly, and have looked to Kickstarter to help them do it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1124records/inhuman-the-new-nightmare-lp-on-vinyl

Like i said, i normally don't promote this kind of stuff, but these guys are really close, and I'd like to see them pull it off. Aside from being a good band, they're some of the nicest dudes ever, and as some of you may know, music as a career doesn't always pay the bills. So if you can throw a few bucks their way in the next couple of days, please find it in your heart to do so. :)

Tom K
04-21-2012, 01:33 PM
I know Mike and like his band a lot...

But the kickstarter route is the wrong way to go about things...

Mark Tolch
04-22-2012, 01:27 PM
I'm not that familiar with it...I recall hearing about a few cool projects that never would've happened without it. Can you elaborate?

Tom K
04-22-2012, 02:41 PM
It may just be my ancient way of thinking Mark...

This has nothing to do with Mike or his band, just my general views on Kickstarter...

Being in struggling bands for many years myself, I would never even think of having fans finance a recording. It just screams laziness and self entitlement. To me, it also screams that a band not be ready to release something. I have seen posting by many bands on FB using Kickstarter and I just shake my head. What's next? Bands asking fans to buy equipment for them? Start a band fund, plays some shows, sell some merch, and save your money.

There has always been an evolution. A band would send out rehearsal tapes to people and clubs in the hope of securing some cash to record a proper demo. If a proper demo was recorded, that would be shopped, traded, sold, etc, all while generating a buzz. Sometimes, a band could get lucky and score a deal right off a first demo...others would release more demos, maybe a 7". The point was, there was a discography in a sense that demonstrates motivation and stability. Not to mention a band's desire to keep working hard and improving their craft.

Nowadays, bands skip all those steps and feel, we are a band, so we're going to release a CD. They spam FB, My Space, and Reverbnation and may get picked up by a label just because of a high friend count. Now, because of technology, there are way too many bands and not enough fans. To many releases, shows, and tours. A band may get lucky and get a deal, go out on tour, and break up during because they don't know how to handle it.

Our fourth album is due to be released shortly. I had a discussion with the label about it being a possible vinyl only release. As much as I wanted that, I said no, just stick with CD. I can move more of those plus the costs associated with it didn't make sense to me. I made that choice. We'll see if it is the right one.

Anyway, it does not cost a lot of money to record. With the way technology is now, studios are no longer required. So a band could record on the cheap and sound great. Pressing is what will cost, especially vinyl. A label will not want to get behind a vinyl pressing unless they know they are going to get a return. And even still, the return is not that great. So a band has to be really known with a big fanbase to provide the justification.

Mark Tolch
04-22-2012, 05:14 PM
Fair enough, Tom, I get what you're saying, a lot of good points. I have to agree that you can record and press discs for cheap, my last band recorded and put out CDs for dirt cheap. Truth be told, i'm not familiar with pressing vinyl or the costs involved, so I'll definitely go with your expertise on that.

As for buying into it, I would say that it's a possibility that my friendship with Mike and Joe made me more inclined to donate than to "Band X"....also, I feel that receiving a copy of the album and a shirt was a fair exchange for the money I put out...I equated it with advanced orders or presales when it comes to smaller companies who require cash up front to finance their product.

That being said, thanks for elaborating, as i said, good points made. What's the name of your band, anyhow?

Tom K
04-22-2012, 05:56 PM
That's why I wrestled with posting thoughts on this as Mike is a great guy in an awesome band...I would like to donate, but it goes against what I believe...kind of like the whole "pay to play" thing, but that is another topic...lol

My band is Cardiac Arrest...been doing that since 06 (along with my other band Severed since 1995) and have a lot of the same struggles as many other bands...we don't really see any money and if we do, it goes back to whoever we owe or towards merch for the future.

I am happy with where we are at. But it has been a slow progression...we are able to call some of the shots now and do get taken care of at shows rather than getting fucked over. We can pick and choose now, which is a lot better than having to do something.

Mark Tolch
04-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Cool stuff, Tom! I'll check your band out. And yeah, i was going to edit my other post to say, after talking about why I donated money...that I don't think that Mike and his band are in the same category as bands who can't be bothered to put any of their money into their own stuff, and want their "friend"community to do it for them. But I think we're on the same page, there. :)

Tom K
04-30-2012, 08:39 PM
A little off topic here but I saw something the other day on FB where a band was using a kickstarter type site to ask for donations for a tour van because they want to branch out and can't afford one...So I guess bands asking for everything is becoming the norm...

Mark Tolch
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
I was just discussing some of these projects that I've looked into since our conversation on here. And it's pretty ridiculous what some people are asking for on kickstarter and other sites. So i'm with ya on that one.

Tom K
08-10-2012, 02:58 PM
Looks like Mike got his album done...I don't have a link, but I saw him promoting the pre-order on Facebook...

Coolness!

Mark Tolch
08-10-2012, 05:23 PM
He did indeed...I contributed enough to get a copy of the album and a t-shirt, which is good enough value for what i paid. :-) I have to tell you, though, Tom, I've been looking at even more kickstarter and especially indiegogo projects, and i'm blown away. Somebody trying to raise money because their pet needed surgery which they paid 2 grand for and then died, and they "shouldn't have to deal with heartbreak as well as financial problems". Uh, you bought a pet. It's a responsibility. Yeesh.

Tom K
08-10-2012, 05:52 PM
It is the entitlement era...

I gave to a friend with something similar (it wasn't kickstarter) who got in a wreck and was in pretty bad shape...no insurance, etc...

I just don't like asking...sure, I'll ask people to come to a show we play, but to give me money so I can buy a van to get to the show is a bit much...

Again, I like Mike and his band...and I doubt that kickstarter fully funded the album cost...but, every little bit helps...I would never do that...

Usually when I see those, there is an initial response and then it tapers off and just disappears...I'm glad your getting bonus stuff out of that too...

Kickstarter and Indiegogo seem to be big in the indie film scene..."I have a camcorder and software, so I am not a film maker...give me money so I can make a movie"

Mark Tolch
08-12-2012, 11:02 PM
Yeah, some of the movie startup/actor expense ones are ridiculous. If you want to make movies, go do what other people who make movies had to do...work at it. Jeez. I know that risks are....risky, but come on!

Paul Casey
08-13-2012, 10:17 AM
I dig Kickstarter for games or other cool products. Here are two I've contributed to:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jchaffin/the-horror-in-clay-cthulhu-tiki-mug-production-run

Mark Tolch
01-05-2013, 12:20 PM
Well, my first experience with Kickstarter wasn't a good one. I donated to support the release of INHUMAN's record on vinyl, with a 41 dollar contribution for a shirt and record. Thankfully, i'm only out 40 bucks. A good number of people got their stuff, but for those of us who didn't, neither Scott (the starter of the campaign), nor his company, 1124 records, have bothered to reply to multiple emails asking where my stuff is. 3 months after the stuff was sent out, i've given up any hope of seeing it, despite Mike S.'s intervention. No response at all. What I didn't realize is that kickstarter isn't like paypal, you can't try to recoup your cash if you don't get stuff. Oh well, lesson learned and it's only 40 bucks, but it sucks when you try to do right in supporting an indy music project and get hosed. I guess i helped cause the record got put out, but would've been nice to have been able to hear it.

Roderick
01-05-2013, 12:31 PM
Pirate the shit out of that record, Tolch.

Roderick
01-05-2013, 12:46 PM
Also, there is a public comments section on each Kickstarter page so you can also engage in some public shaming.

Ian Jane
01-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Also, there is a public comments section on each Kickstarter page so you can also engage in some public shaming.

This. Complain and complain loudly and use social media to bitch. Keep bitching.

Ian Jane
01-05-2013, 01:23 PM
1124 records is on twitter as @1124_records - bitch there, tag'em, do it constantly. If they can't be bothered to respond to emails from people who funded the project that's fucking lame.

Mark Tolch
01-05-2013, 05:12 PM
Hey, thanks, I'll twitter them as well. I did the public comments on the page. Like i said, Mike and the band aren't the ones responsible here, when i was on the facebook, mike seemed pretty annoyed that scott wasn't responding and was emailing him as well.

Tom K
01-06-2013, 12:11 AM
Ok, so Mike did not start the Kickstarter, the label did? That is kind of shady...if a label does not have the funds, they probably shouldn't be a label...

Bummer you got burned, but like others said, use social media to burn back...

And I hope that this does not give Mike and his band a black eye...but people usually go straight to the band...

When we did our our Haven for the Insane album, there was a preorder package available, which had a shirt, patch, and a beer koozi with the CD...and some people did not get all the items...who do you think people came bitching to? Me. And I had no control over it...amends were made, but it still made us feel like shit...and I had a pretty angry conversation with the label to make sure everything was made good on...

Music industry can really blow...

Mark Tolch
01-06-2013, 10:50 AM
Yeah, it's pretty shitty when you figure the scene is always talking about how there's no support, and stand together united and all of that other bullshit that works until people have to get off the couch, and record labels are still assholes.

Mike apologized profusely, and I have no doubt that if I bitched hard at him, I'd have my record and shirt supplied by him, but like you said, Tom....it's not something that the band has control over.

Anyway, Scott Foster and 1124 Records can suck six dicks apiece, I guess I'll make sure I don't buy anything from them in the future

Mark Tolch
01-16-2013, 03:18 PM
Well, maybe it was the constant harassment on twitter, though doubtful, or Mike got pissy with scott being a fuckstick, or the comment i left on the kickstarter page and the nasty email i sent to Scott at 1124, but my record and t-shirt showed up today. It definitely wasn't lost in the mail, as it was just mailed out last Friday. I'm not retracting any of my other statements, this was supposed to be done months ago, but it is nice to have what I paid for, and also nice to not find a giant turd in the box when i opened it. :-D

Anyway, I'm glad I got it, it's a cool record, but I think i'll leave kickstarter for other people in the future.

Ian Jane
01-16-2013, 03:38 PM
Glad that they did the right thing and followed through. Better late than never.

And for what it's worth, both Distribpix and Vinegar Syndrome honored my kickstarter pledges nice and quickly.

Tom K
01-17-2013, 10:13 PM
Good deal...glad you got your stuff!

Mark Tolch
01-18-2013, 10:03 AM
Yeah, i'm pretty happy that it showed. Even if it took like a year. :D