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View Full Version : Cro-Mags' Harley Flanagan Arrested For Stabbing Mike Couls



Ian Jane
07-07-2012, 08:56 AM
This is pretty nuts (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/punk_band_stabbing_2XycabYc7xhi92cSA1fshL).

"A former member of the hard-core punk band the Cro-Mags attacked two of the group’s current members with a hunting knife in a dressing room before a show at Webster Hall yesterday — biting one and slashing both.

The band was about to take the stage about 8:15 p.m. when tattooed rocker Harley Flanagan, 42, barreled through the East Village venue’s VIP section toward the Cro-Mags’ dressing room, sending nearly 30 guests on the balcony into a frenzy, law enforcement sources and witnesses said."

I had a pass for this show and gave it to Derek when I couldn't use it. The AF show the night before seemed to go off without any problems at all, and then this happens?
It's sad.

Andrew Monroe
07-07-2012, 11:57 AM
Wow, that is insane! Bit him?!?

Ian Jane
07-07-2012, 12:25 PM
Stabbed him and bit him, yep. Way to represent the NYHC scene, Harley.

Ian Jane
07-07-2012, 01:33 PM
There's a lot of talk about Couls having ties to DMS and DMS getting back at Harley for this. After this, he might be safer in prison.

Mark Tolch
07-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Are the DMS crew still a big deal? I know they were back in the 80's, but I didn't figure they were still very active.

Anyway, what a fucked up situation. The latest rumour circulating is that Jimmy Gestapo hid the knife in the venue the night before when Murphy's Law played, and then got Harley all coked up and riled up before the Cro-Mags gig. Not much substance to that, just accusations, but it's odd that Flanagan didn't show up the night before when he would've been less obvious, as all of the Cro-Mags guys were there. I don't know, that guy's got to have issues. He's got kids, and he's gonna go to jail over this shit, probably for a long time. How important is the band to you??? More important than your own kids?

Ian Jane
07-07-2012, 06:22 PM
I'm honestly not sure how big DMS are anymore but they still exist in some form or another. There were a lot of DMS hats and stuff at the AF show the night before (the show that had ZERO problems). I've just read bits and pieces on the B9 board and a couple of other spots that Couls has ties and that Harley had better watch out.

I know no more than that. I'm not in 'the scene' I just like punk rock shows.

As to the Jimmy Gestapo theory, it's an interesting one. But there is a post on the B9 board where one of the guys from 108 talked about working with Harley and how after he showed off a hunting knife noting that he'd use it on JJ, they opted to get someone else to drum. Was this premeditated? Who knows. I sure don't.

What I do know is that it sucks that I'll never get to see a proper Cro-Mags show at this point and that this whole thing is pretty fucked up. I feel bad for Harley's kids but maybe this'll get him to turn things around.

Ian Jane
07-07-2012, 06:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUb9MPhhDec&feature=youtu.be

Dig the obnoxious drunk chicks at the end of that video.

And John Joseph announcing the closure of the show...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cOYWm3C500&feature=related

Mark Tolch
07-07-2012, 07:02 PM
Those girls are idiots. Haha...god forbid they call in the police when two guys get stabbed.

Anyway, that show closing could've gone a LOT worse, when you consider other hardcore shows that have been shut down by cops and fire department in the past. Glad to see everyone with a level head.

Derek Steckler
07-09-2012, 09:53 AM
I don't know what his beef was but was it really worth prison? He hadn't been in the band for like 10 years! Anyway the place was packed and Vision Of Disorder was great. The house lights came on for about 20 minutes but they were still setting up equipment and serving drinks. No indication on the floor that something was amiss. Then the announcements above. I left right away - being with a couple thousand pissed off drunk hardcore punks spilling out onto a street full of cops is a classic case of "the wrong place at the wrong time." Anyway I was glad there were no other incidents. Thanks for the pass Ian, at last I got to see VOD and have a story to tell...

sukebanboy
07-09-2012, 09:59 AM
Anyway I was glad there were no other incidents. Thanks for the pass Ian, at last I got to see VOD and have a story to tell...

yep....not just a regular gig.....You were there when something BIG happened....Now you have another interesting anecdote to add to your collection to tell over dinner in polite company!!

Ian Jane
07-09-2012, 10:16 AM
Definintely one to tell your grandkids when you're old and grey!

sukebanboy
07-09-2012, 10:19 AM
Definintely one to tell your grandkids when you're old and grey!

You can even embellish it a bit......

..say you were IN THE ROOM when Flanagan went mental....

or....

...you were the security guy who suppressed him...

or even better,

...say you slapped some sense into those dizzy girls in the video on the way out..

Tom K
07-09-2012, 11:55 PM
Just read that fans are setting up a defense fund and trying to solicit donations...I guess people who have fans can get rewarded...Two cases in about two weeks in which a musician fucks up bad and fans come to their aid...I don''t get it...

I liked old Cro Mags...Age of Quarrel was a great album and something I still listen to today. I have a soft spot for Best Wishes as well. I remember seeing them back in 89 or 90 when Harley was leading them. Good performance but things went south when someone in the crowd swiped his hat off his head. A lot of screaming and yelling, but they kept playing...3 more songs and at the end, he was like "Please gimme my hat back!" in kind of a whiny begging voice.

sukebanboy
07-10-2012, 10:37 AM
Just read that fans are setting up a defense fund and trying to solicit donations...I guess people who have fans can get rewarded...Two cases in about two weeks in which a musician fucks up bad and fans come to their aid...I don''t get it...

.


Just wondering what exactly the defence plea is going to be....those fans are throwing their money away it appears...

Ian Jane
07-10-2012, 10:40 AM
In all seriousness, there could be an insanity plea.

sukebanboy
07-10-2012, 10:43 AM
In all seriousness, there could be an insanity plea.

Not sure there will be any other option on the table for them....

Ian Jane
07-10-2012, 10:45 AM
I'm obvioulsy not a lawyer but a 'settled insanity' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settled_insanity) plea based on whatever he may or may not have been using could be valid.

Tom K
07-10-2012, 04:26 PM
This is true, but I am just more baffled that fans do not care about what is right and what is wrong. Harley has always been kind of off kilter, no denying that...lol

Ian Jane
07-10-2012, 04:41 PM
Given that they hadn't, as of this morning, hit 1% of what they were going for, I think it's safe to say that Harley's supporters are few and far between this time around. He may have had a case against what happened with the Cro-Mags, but that doesn't excuse this.

Mark Tolch
07-11-2012, 10:21 AM
New York Post reports Flanagan's lawyer as saying that Harley was jumped by the other guys and was acting in self-defense. Huh.

Ian Jane
07-11-2012, 10:25 AM
Everyone deserves a fair shot in court and is innocent until proven guilty, BUT that conflicts with pretty much everyone else's take on this.

Mark Tolch
07-11-2012, 12:18 PM
You would think that all of the people who saw it go down from the balcony would've said something if it had happened in self-defense.

Goldberg
07-12-2012, 06:17 AM
hardcore always had a bit of a BOGAN element to it!

sukebanboy
07-12-2012, 10:51 AM
You would think that all of the people who saw it go down from the balcony would've said something if it had happened in self-defense.

Are THEY the ones who will turn up to the court hearings though???....

Not sure what the plan will be for his lawyers....best thing will be for him to get help rather than jail time though I reckon

Ian Jane
07-12-2012, 07:31 PM
Interview with Harley here (http://www.nynatives.com/feature/exclusive-harley-flanagan-webster-hall-attack). He says he showed up and got jumped behind closed doors and that he showed up with the best of intentions.

When you show up to a show with the best of intentions though, do you usually show up with a hunting knife?

Paul Casey
07-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Interview with Harley here (http://www.nynatives.com/feature/exclusive-harley-flanagan-webster-hall-attack). He says he showed up and got jumped behind closed doors and that he showed up with the best of intentions.

When you show up to a show with the best of intentions though, do you usually show up with a hunting knife?

If his best intentions were to hunt, then, yeah. There are lots of elk in NYC.

Roderick
07-12-2012, 08:57 PM
If his best intentions were to hunt, then, yeah.

It's called "harvesting". Sometimes you need to cull the herd.

Ian Jane
07-13-2012, 03:48 PM
Joseph's response (http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/drama/harley-flanagan-gives-his-side-of-the-cro-mags-stabbing-incident-jon-joseph-responds) to Harvey's interview.

Robert W
07-13-2012, 08:46 PM
Legally speaking, this guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. Self defense as an affirmative defense can only be used in situations where the person had no chance to flee. To go after someone with a hunting knife shows premeditation. I'm not up on NY General Laws, but he's looking at SEVERAL felony charges here. Plus if he's got prior convictions he's going to be in even deeper shit, as NY is, if I'm remembering correctly, a "three strikes" state.

sukebanboy
07-13-2012, 11:26 PM
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out as it appears (from the evidence so far) that it s a pretty open-and-shut-case....

The addition of the "three strikes rule" (that never crossed my mind to be honest) means there is a lot more at stake....

Wonder why they didnt go the "temporary insanity" route.....

Robert W
07-14-2012, 06:18 AM
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out as it appears (from the evidence so far) that it s a pretty open-and-shut-case....

The addition of the "three strikes rule" (that never crossed my mind to be honest) means there is a lot more at stake....

Wonder why they didnt go the "temporary insanity" route.....

Given the account of what allegedly transpired here, it certainly seems that Flanagan "knew" what he was doing and wasn't acting in the "heat of passion." "Heat of passion" would be something like your daughter comes home and tells you the neighbor raped her and you just loose it right then and there and kill him. This would be the kind of mitigating circumstance that could possibly reduce a first degree murder charge to manslaughter. In essence, you'd have to prove that there wasn't a "cooling off" period.

Here are the New York state penal codes applicable to assault,
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article120.htm#p120.00

Like almost everything in the law, the person's "intent" will be the deciding factor in what they'll eventually be charged with. The DA will need to review the evidence and have to decide whether it's strong enough to warrant a trial. Again, give the foregoing accounts as to what had allegedly transpired, it would seem that Flanagan "knew" what he was doing and had the "intent" to cause harm to another. Now as both of the victims were said to be unarmed, Flanagan certainly can't claim self-defense, unless of course he can prove that he was first physically assaulted. Also, given the rather draconian weapon laws of New York, he wouldn't be able to carry a "hunting knife" legally, so that's another charge right there.

So it sounds like they'll be able to charge with a weapons violation and some kind of assault. Now the weapons possession charge will compound the assault charge. Plus, if he has any other serious prior convictions, then he'll be in even deeper shit, as they'll be able to show a history of violent/criminal behavior. This the judge can use as a sentencing guideline, assuming he's tried and convicted, meaning he could very well throw the book at him and give him the maximum number of years if he's tried and convicted.

Honestly though, it sounds like this guy just threw about ten years of his life away, at the very least.

Mark Tolch
07-14-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm definitely not a big fan of Harley's, but whether or not he showed up looking to cause trouble....it's admitted that he was invited into the dressing room and then grabbed to be searched for weapons. If I were in Harley's shoes, I may have responded the same way.

Robert W
07-14-2012, 07:47 PM
And he could of just left the dressing room too without stabbing anyone.

Since it doesn't sound like anyone else in the dressing had a weapon and was threatening him with it, it's going to be pretty hard to try and convince a jury he had no other option but to stab and bite two people.

Of course carry a concealed weapon is probably a felony in NY in and of itself.

Ian Jane
07-15-2012, 10:01 AM
Of course carry a concealed weapon is probably a felony in NY in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure if you don't have a permit (and let's face it, he probably didn't) it's a felony unless you're in your home or place of business. He was not in his home or his place of business.

Robert W
07-15-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm pretty sure if you don't have a permit (and let's face it, he probably didn't) it's a felony unless you're in your home or place of business. He was not in his home or his place of business.

Also, unlike firearms, there are no legal provisions for the carrying of knives. In my state for example, I can carry a concealed .44 mag, but it's illegal for me, at the same time, to carry a folding knife in excess of 2.5". Can someone explain that to me?

Mark Tolch
07-15-2012, 07:44 PM
And he could of just left the dressing room too without stabbing anyone.

Since it doesn't sound like anyone else in the dressing had a weapon and was threatening him with it, it's going to be pretty hard to try and convince a jury he had no other option but to stab and bite two people.


If you're in a room with people that you've been feuding with for years, and they shut the door behind you and grab you attempting to subdue you, you're going to stand there and say "Hey, now, guys, let's talk"? Harley's a hot head. If it went down like he said, Jon Joseph certainly didn't have any right to attempt to detain Harley to "search him for weapons". Forcible confinement is also a criminal charge. Not saying Harley is in the right at all, especially without knowing for sure what happened, but details of his account that seemed far-fetched are being confirmed by Jon's interview.

Robert W
07-15-2012, 08:35 PM
And the DA is going to be asking what was he doing in a room with people he was feuding with if not to start trouble.

Again, I'm just going on what has been posted in this thread, but it sounds like Flanagan went looking for trouble and found it.

sukebanboy
07-15-2012, 10:51 PM
..even if he DIDNT go looking for trouble...he was certainly in the right place to find it!!...and his reaction to whatever happened is certainly in the extreme....

...but looks like until he has his day in court,we wont know for sure...and even after THAT it may stil be fuzzy...

Ian Jane
07-16-2012, 09:58 AM
You don't show up somewhere with a concealed weapon if you're going there with the best of intentions.

Robert W
07-16-2012, 01:50 PM
You don't show up somewhere with a concealed weapon if you're going there with the best of intentions.

Exactly. And that's just what the DA is going to be hammering home into the jury's heads if this case does end up going to trial.

Jack J
07-16-2012, 07:55 PM
Harley Flanagan lived in Denmark when he was a kid. Here's a pic of him from a Brats gig in 1978. It's Hank Shermann on stage (later of Mercyful Fate).

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn199/mrsick_scans/Harley_Flanagan_1978.jpg

Ian Jane
07-17-2012, 09:48 AM
That's kind of awesome.

sukebanboy
07-17-2012, 01:55 PM
Amazing photo!

paul h.
07-17-2012, 04:44 PM
and how.

Andrew Monroe
07-17-2012, 05:53 PM
That is indeed an awesome picture. I always loved that Hank had a guitar strap with his name on it.

Jack J
07-17-2012, 06:30 PM
It is indeed a cool photo. It's from a concert in the city of Aarhus. Brats was a Danish punk band that existed in the late 70s but I don't know too much about them. I think they kinda morphed into Mercyful Fate. Harley was born in the US but lived in Denmark for 10 years or so when he was a kid. His step-dad is Danish. I found an interview from 2000 in which the interviewer says Harley still speaks Danish.

Here's a link to the Brats discography:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Brats

guest
07-19-2012, 10:56 AM
bath salts lol

guest
07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
harley would be much easier to find in prison Ian. dms is strong there too

sukebanboy
07-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Who (or what ) is DMS?

Ian Jane
07-19-2012, 11:59 AM
A gang with ties to the NYHC scene.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doc%20martin%20skins

sukebanboy
07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
Thanks for that Ian...I thought as much!

Ian Jane
08-08-2012, 11:30 AM
The Sick Of It All show is rescheduled for 9/7/12 with CIV in place of the Cro-Mags on the bill.

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2012/08/sick_of_it_all_7.html

Ian Jane
09-29-2012, 12:18 PM
An update on this via Vice Magazine.

http://www.vice.com/read/harley-flanagan-says-he-was-like-a-white-mike-tyson-at-rikers

So Harley did go to Riker's for a few days, got a staph infection in his leg, then got out on bail. From the sounds of things, it definitely could have gone worse for him. I wonder if this will eventually just fade away or if the repurcussions will linger a bit?

Ehren H
09-29-2012, 02:57 PM
So many things I want to say on this issue, most of which I probably shouldn't. But, in short, Harley Flanagan was indeed a legend, but his own behavior has ostracized him for quite some time now, and it culminated in this insane and pathetic outburst. People were wounded, and a show was ruined for many, many concert-goers, and it again put a scene we love in a dark and violent light.

Couls was a really cool, laid-back, nice guy every time I've met him, and I hope he's recovered well.

Ian Jane
10-01-2012, 02:54 PM
Brooklyn Vegan has a small update on the case here (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2012/10/harley_flanagan_3.html).

The best thing about it is that they posted this picture.

Ehren H
10-01-2012, 03:28 PM
His story just doesn't add up, he showed up with a hunting knife, not a pocket knife or something that people usually carry with them, but a hunting knife. He had intentions for showing up. Someone said earlier, I can't remember who, that Jimmy G possibly stashed the knife for him. I cannot in any way believe that is true.

Whether he goes to jail or not, he got his ass whooped and has completely ostracized himself, so hopefully he learned his lesson.

Ian Jane
10-01-2012, 03:35 PM
And if so, well, at least he has his horse.

Horace Cordier
10-01-2012, 04:50 PM
THE BRATS btw are awesome. It's like MERCYFUL FATE riffs with punk vocals and goofy lyrics. The guitars are killer!

Travis Sheldon
10-01-2012, 05:23 PM
Forlorn horsie...

Ehren H
10-01-2012, 08:01 PM
This just in, Harley Flanagan stabbed a horse with a sword after it supposedly tried to jump him.

Mark Tolch
12-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Wow. Flanagan walks.

http://www.newyorknatives.com/exclusive-harley-flanagan-cro-mags-brawl-dismissed/#.UMtKXOSdMxF

Ian Jane
12-14-2012, 11:57 AM
Did not expect that.


http://vimeo.com/55562059

Ian Jane
12-19-2012, 03:28 PM
Steven Blush (he of American Hardcore fame) writes about the issue here (http://www.papermag.com/2012/12/harley_flanagan_court_triumph.php).

Ian Jane
06-27-2013, 12:44 PM
This isn't going away. (http://dyingscene.com/news/members-of-the-cro-mags-suing-ex-bassist-and-webster-hall/)

"Even though the band released a statement just days later asking people to move on from the incident, members William Berario and Michael Cous have decided to sue both Flanagan for the unprovoked attack, and Webster Hall for providing inadequate security."

Ian Jane
01-12-2014, 01:01 PM
New album in the works?

http://dyingscene.com/news/cro-mags-to-release-new-music-this-year/

“We’ll see what happens. You know, everybody’s got other stuff going on. I mean, I’d like to release an EP, you know, something, this year. We’ll see what happens. But I’ve got some other music stuff I’m working on and film stuff and I’m so busy. We’ll see what happens. If it happens, it would be great. The band is not a full-time thing, as you know. Maybe we’ll play Miami once a year, Europe once a year, California once a year — we just mainly do it to have fun, play the songs.”

Mark Tolch
01-13-2014, 09:00 AM
Guessing we won't be seeing Harley in that lineup.

Ian Jane
08-29-2014, 03:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWISbHCGcVY

Ian Jane
05-13-2020, 09:52 AM
New video!

Phil Campbell!

https://www.revolvermag.com/music/cro-mags-new-grave-video-motorhead-phil-campbell


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zMEshmiobg&feature=emb_logo

Mark Tolch
05-13-2020, 10:35 AM
Got to take a lot of effort to be that angry-looking.