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Thread: Jay And Silent Bob (2019)

  1. #11
    Really great thread. There was a time when Smith was one of my favorite working filmmakers. There was also a time where I was utterly indifferent to what he was doing. For me, it breaks down easily. His run from Clerks to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back was consistent hot streak, and I fully agree with the Paul's comments regarding Clerks and Dick's on Mallrats. Clerks II was a shockingly good sequel and he was wise to not imitate the style of the first film. Red State I think is one of his best. As out of left field as it might have seemed from him at the time, don't forget, Dogma was surprisingly violent at points.

    Having discovered his and Jason Mewes' travelling podcast Jay and Silent Bob Get Old, I've since revisited the View Askewniverse films and my appreciation has remained with time. Each is representative of a sorely missed and exciting time in film.

    Weirdly, I've yet to see Tusk, which I've been curious about.
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  2. #12
    MCMLXXX Matt H.'s Avatar
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    The only films of his I really like are MALLRATS, RED STATE and TUSK. I enjoy his "An Evening With Kevin Smith" specials and he and Scott Mosier do a very entertaining commentary on the ROAD HOUSE special edition.
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  3. #13
    MCMLXXX Matt H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Clark View Post
    Having discovered his and Jason Mewes' travelling podcast Jay and Silent Bob Get Old, I've since revisited the View Askewniverse films and my appreciation has remained with time. Each is representative of a sorely missed and exciting time in film.
    Have you got around to VULGAR yet? I absolutely despise that film. I was genuinely depressed for a week after I saw it. One of the most unpleasant movies I've ever seen.
    Why would anybody watch a scum show like Videodrome? Why did you watch it, Max?

  4. #14
    Spoon! Dom D's Avatar
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    I came to Kevin Smith late but I agree with everyone who gives the thumbs up to Clerks. I thought that was a magnificent effort at pushing back against the restrictions of working with no budget. Why he's choosen to keep pushing Jay and Bob though is a mystery. They were some of the weakest parts of that film to begin with but even if they were funny they are the sort of characters who belong as shock troops in the background. Kramer might be the funniest part of Seinfeld but you don't put him front and center, he can only exist as a sideline.

    I always thought Kevin Smith would do better with a TV show. Some writers do better when they have restrictions and I think he's one of them.
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  5. #15
    Scholar of Sleaze Paul L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D View Post
    Why he's choosen to keep pushing Jay and Bob though is a mystery. They were some of the weakest parts of that film to begin with but even if they were funny they are the sort of characters who belong as shock troops in the background. Kramer might be the funniest part of Seinfeld but you don't put him front and center, he can only exist as a sideline
    My feelings exactly, Dom. When I saw CLERKS, I didn't outright dislike the scenes with Jay and Silent Bob; but they worked because they acted as a foil to the main story involving Dante and Randall, and in some ways Jay and Silent Bob were the antagonists of the story, creating havoc in Dante's day. Making a film/films focusing exclusively on Jay and Silent Bob, imo, is like taking taking a character like the porter from MACBETH and making a film with him as a central character - extending the joke ad infinitum and therefore diluting its impact and any meaning it might have.
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  6. #16
    I like how this thread evolved into shitting on Kevin Smith. I think the guy missed his calling doing stand up/being a story teller:



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  7. #17
    Scholar of Sleaze Paul L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex K. View Post
    I like how this thread evolved into shitting on Kevin Smith. I think the guy missed his calling doing stand up/being a story teller:
    With his gift of oratory, which cannot be denied, I imagine Smith is excellent at pitching a film to prospective producers. (Whether he can always follow through or not is another matter.) On another level, I'm inspired by the way in which he's turned his life around after his heart attack; that's profoundly inspirational stuff, especially to dudes, like myself, who have become, in middle-age, of the portly persuasion.
    Last edited by Paul L; 07-22-2019 at 06:34 AM.
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  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
    Some detailed reflections there, Dick. Genuinely interesting reading. (I mean that sincerely.) I agree about MALLRATS but I also liked CLERKS a great deal. I saw CLERKS back when it was first released to cinemas in the UK and distinctly remember the poster in the foyer of the box office. That film chimed with me greatly, as I was working in retail at the time and the dialogue - trying to fill a day by talking about all kinds of immaterial shite, to make a deeply mundane job somehow interesting - felt very much like the conversations I'd have with my work colleagues. I rewatch CLERKS every few years and it still hits me in the same way, though there's a sense of nostalgia added to it now as I look back fondly on those years - my formative teenage years, and the relative simplicity of them (compared to middle adulthood).

    I was lukewarm on MALLRATS when it was released but grew to like it on video. Again, it captured something about the era, even if the 'mall culture' seen in the film hadn't translated to the UK (where I live); like you say, it offers a good window into what the mid-1990s were like, and what it meant to be a young person during that decade. There seemed to be a whole host of similar 'coming of age' movies in '95 that seemed influenced by CLERKS - including EMPIRE RECORDS, as I recall.

    CHASING AMY felt like a self-indulgent attempt to capture lightning in a bottle, and JAY AND SILENT BOB seemed like a desperate attempt to capitalise on the two characters from CLERKS whose scenes I thought, when I saw CLERKS at the cinema in '94/'95(?), should have been left on the floor of the cutting room. I liked RED STATE but aside from that picture, nothing Smith has made since MALLRATS has tickled my fancy. However, when I was at university studying for my Master's degree, I remember one of my classmates offering an impassioned reading of the then-recently released DOGMA that made me want to revisit the film, though admittedly in the intervening years I've never found the time and opportunity to do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
    Some detailed reflections there, Dick. Genuinely interesting reading. (I mean that sincerely.) I agree about MALLRATS but I also liked CLERKS a great deal. I saw CLERKS back when it was first released to cinemas in the UK and distinctly remember the poster in the foyer of the box office. That film chimed with me greatly, as I was working in retail at the time and the dialogue - trying to fill a day by talking about all kinds of immaterial shite, to make a deeply mundane job somehow interesting - felt very much like the conversations I'd have with my work colleagues. I rewatch CLERKS every few years and it still hits me in the same way, though there's a sense of nostalgia added to it now as I look back fondly on those years - my formative teenage years, and the relative simplicity of them (compared to middle adulthood).

    I was lukewarm on MALLRATS when it was released but grew to like it on video. Again, it captured something about the era, even if the 'mall culture' seen in the film hadn't translated to the UK (where I live); like you say, it offers a good window into what the mid-1990s were like, and what it meant to be a young person during that decade. There seemed to be a whole host of similar 'coming of age' movies in '95 that seemed influenced by CLERKS - including EMPIRE RECORDS, as I recall.

    CHASING AMY felt like a self-indulgent attempt to capture lightning in a bottle, and JAY AND SILENT BOB seemed like a desperate attempt to capitalise on the two characters from CLERKS whose scenes I thought, when I saw CLERKS at the cinema in '94/'95(?), should have been left on the floor of the cutting room. I liked RED STATE but aside from that picture, nothing Smith has made since MALLRATS has tickled my fancy. However, when I was at university studying for my Master's degree, I remember one of my classmates offering an impassioned reading of the then-recently released DOGMA that made me want to revisit the film, though admittedly in the intervening years I've never found the time and opportunity to do that.
    Paul, I saw Clerks after Mallrats. I had no idea about Kevin Smith at that time. For me, my first exposure to Kevin Smith involved taking some screener VHS tapes home with me, and one of them being, "Mallrats". The video store used to have to hold onto them, in case the studio asked for them back. So, they had quite a collection in the back room. It was like a private free-rental area for employees and such. Some of this stuff the video store didn't get for rent, such as Mallrats. It was an experience first seeing Mallrats, sharing it with some people, them sharing it with others, etc. It was a good age, and time, to be surprised with that movie.

    Back during that time, my family had HBO, Cinemax, most of the premium stations. I recall, after seeing that movie, going over to, probably, the then new imdb.com to look for more information about this director, and learning about Clerks. Oh, and I recall now, the end credits of Mallrats mentioning, "Jay and Silent Bob will be back in... 'Chasing Amy'". Clerks was a pretty easy find, it was airing on HBO, or something, near that time, so, I recorded it, loaned it to a friend or 2, probably also watched with someone, it was decent, had it's moment, but, during that time in life, Mallrats was the preferred film for me, and some others. Still is, for me. Clerks had it's moments, the video store scene with the porno order is pretty good, the customers choosing movies they're sure not to like, "OOOOOO, Navy Seals!". The boner towards the end of the movie.

    Nostalgia is part of it for me with Mallrats, also. Also, I still find it funny. Another thing about Mallrats, is I did not watch the movie for many years, after.... 2003 or so. I might have watched it again in 2011. I was thinking I would nto enjoy it as I once did, or something, I'm not totally sure why. I am pretty sure that's when I decided to watch that Extended version, and, wow, that was not the Mallrats I knew. I think the next day, or later that week, I watched the theatrical version, and all was well. I enjoyed it as I did in the 90s. Also, I knew many people that were super frustrated with Magic Eye back then, in the mid-90s. I trained myself to see the Magic Eye, in a.... I think it was a Waldenbooks, in a mall, of course. I sat, trying, and trying to see the damn 3D image, as I had for weeks prior. Well, I got to see something, lost it, and over time, trained myself. I seriously thought it was all bullshit during that time, and everybody saying they saw something, was full of shit, and that was the gimmick of it all, that is was fake, and there is no 3D image. That was, until I saw it. The funny thing about that is, years later, it's like learning to ride a bike, I haven't forgotten. I can get a book with the Magic Eye style images, and usually within no more than 10 seconds see the image, as long as the light is proper. Dim light, I find that makes it more difficult. What I am getting at, was I have told some younger people, that yes, Magic Eye was a huge deal back then, at least in the US. It was everyplace.

    Chasing Amy, that was another one my video store never got in stock, also, the other video stores (haha, now I remember a scene from Clerks, the, "Good Video Store"...) I frequented did not stock it, for some reason. I never went to Blockbuster for it, though. Also, a relative of a good friend told my friend and I that it was a romantic movie, not too good, not too funny, not Mallrats or Clerks type of stuff, and that we wouldn't like it. Also, Jay and Silent Bob are only in it for a minute. Upon hearing that, I didn't seek it out. I think i saw Chasing Amy for the first time in 2006 or so.

    Dogma I was OK with. Some theatres had people, I think they were mostly Catholics, protesting it. I never did catch that in the theatre, but on DVD. Someone bought it for me as a gift. Paul, if it's been a long time since you viewed Dogma, give it another go. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, I saw that in the theatre with a group of people, it was a decent time. But other than that single viewing in 2001, I've not revisited it. I didn't mind seeing the 2 characters in their own movie, it's not like it happened a lot and there were many prior movies that starred the 2 as, well, the stars. It was something new at the time.

    Oh yeah, Red State, I saw that once, I remember some hype about it being, "Something different" from Kevin Smith. I recall being a bit indifferent about it. It was OK. I rented it from Netflix, I think.

    This thread, though, did let me take notice of a movie I knew nothing about, "Cop Out". Something he directed but did not write? I have to give that one a go, sometime.

    Tusk I recall some hype about. I saw it, and I was very bored.

    So, for me, his stuff was great fun, interesting, etc when I was younger, After Dogma, I saw the Strikes back movie, which i did not feel was as good as Dogma. After 2001, when I'd hear about a movie of his in the works, or being released, I'd give it a viewing, and most of the time, I was indifferent to it. Clerks 2 was OK, decent for a sequel. Pillow pants is quite the story and scene. I haven't followed his work much since 2001. Such as, how I had no idea about Cop-Out. I also did not realize he directed the, "Jack and Miri make a porno" movie.

    Anyway, let me move onto another post.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D View Post
    I came to Kevin Smith late but I agree with everyone who gives the thumbs up to Clerks. I thought that was a magnificent effort at pushing back against the restrictions of working with no budget. Why he's choosen to keep pushing Jay and Bob though is a mystery. They were some of the weakest parts of that film to begin with but even if they were funny they are the sort of characters who belong as shock troops in the background. Kramer might be the funniest part of Seinfeld but you don't put him front and center, he can only exist as a sideline.

    I always thought Kevin Smith would do better with a TV show. Some writers do better when they have restrictions and I think he's one of them.
    I think Kevin Smith has chosen to do what he does with the Jay and Silent Bob characters, is because some of the audience really enjoy the characters, a lot. My feelings are, I'd miss the characters if they were to disappear, and there was no new material. The occasional movie that features the 2, I'm OK with it. It's been 18 years. Also, some choice quotes with those 2, some I still laugh about.

    Anyway, the other point in your post, about Kevin Smith maybe doing better with restrictions, reminds me of my thoughts on Mallrats. Theatrical version he did not edit, from what I remember, and I am very fond of that version of the movie. Kevin Smith's edit, I saw it once, and, whew, yeah, it explains some things, such as why the security guard is at the book signing at the end of the movie (Though, I kinda figured something was going on by the hand on the shoulder), so, yeah, it provides some extra background on a few things, but, it's not as fund of a ride as the theatrical edit. That theatrical version starts out with a joke I did not expect, fast, colorful credits follows that, then, I am dropped into the story. It flows great. It's one of the few times, where I don't prefer the director's edit of his own movie. The start of Kevin Smith's version of that movie, it's just not necessary, and I recall being very corny and slapstick.

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